WGA and WGU with Jim Ogsbury

In this episode of the Sage Advice podcast, host Chris Bonnell interviews Jim Ogsbury, former Executive Director of the Western Governors Association (WGA). They discuss the powerful bipartisan collaboration between the WGA and Western Governors University (WGU), and their shared mission to impact the Western states and beyond.

WGA, a non-partisan group of leaders focusing on policy rather than politics, was founded in 1984 to develop policies that address significant challenges such as natural resources, human services, economic development, international relations, and state governance. The association represents the governors of 19 states and three Pacific territories, with their policy recommendations carrying significant influence in Congress.

Ogsbury emphasizes the effectiveness of the Western governors and applauds their collaborative, bipartisan efforts, highlighting several initiatives achieved during his tenure. These include a multi-state agreement on charging infrastructure for electric vehicles, a coordinated approach to regional invasive species, and the launch of the Reimagining the Rural West initiative.

One of WGA's significant achievements, according to Bonnell, is the creation of WGU, an innovative online, competency-based educational model built from the ground up. Established in the late 1990s, WGU filled the gap in post-secondary educational opportunities identified by the governors, and has been a pioneer in the online education space.

While independent, WGU maintains a robust and symbiotic relationship with WGA, providing substantial support and contributing to the association's policy enterprise. The partnership led to the establishment of the Western Governors Leadership Institute, an incubator for young leaders in the West. This institute organizes leadership forums where delegates engage in dialogues with political leaders, promoting a shared commitment to uplifting those eager to learn.

Overall, the conversation emphasizes the value of bipartisan collaboration and how the WGA's work, supported by WGU, impacts not just the Western states, but the entire nation. The commitment to promoting meaningful and impactful policies, irrespective of political differences, remains a vital takeaway from this episode.

Transcript

EPISODE 07

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:05] CB: Welcome to another installment of Sage Advice from Western Governors University. I'm your host Chris Bonnell. Today I'm joined by Jim Ogsbury, former Executive Director of the Western Governors’ Association. In his 11 years as director, Jim helped shape WGA into one of the most bipartisan groups in the nation, focusing on policies rather than politics. He's also been a champion for education and a trusted partner of WGU. Without further ado, here is Sage Advice with Jim Ogsbury. 

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:48] CB: Welcome to this episode of Sage Advice. I'm your host Chris Bonnell. Today, we have the distinct pleasure of talking to Jim Ogsbury. Former Executive Director of the Western Governors’ Association and current leader of the Western Governors Foundation. Welcome, Jim. Thanks for taking some time with us today. 

[0:01:11] JO: Thank you, Chris. Thanks for the opportunity. I always enjoyed visiting with you and WGU. 

[0:01:16] CB: For those that are not aware, the entity that you led for a number of years and most recently retired from is the founding organization of Western Governors University. Neither you nor I were in that role or in our roles at the time, but we certainly had the opportunity to engage together on advancing opportunity, pathways to opportunity for our students. But would you mind, Jim, giving us a little background on Western Governors Association before we get into their founding or development of Western Governors University? 

[0:01:57] JO: Yeah. You bet Chris. Western Governors Association represents the governors of the 22 westernmost states and territories. Those are all the states from Dakota down to Texas and everything west of that, including three Pacific territories. I guess one of the hallmarks of WGA is its fierce commitment to bipartisanship. I've spent my entire career in and around policy and politics and there is no question that Western Governors are the most cordial, effective, collaborative, bipartisan group of leaders that I've ever had of the pleasure to serve. No group at their level of influence and on a bipartisan basis is pursuing policy that is as meaningful and as substantive as that that's being advanced by Western Governors. 

Western Governors, as I said, strictly bipartisan, it is mostly a policy organization. The governors get together to hammer out bipartisan policy to address the biggest challenges facing the west and the nation. Then once those policies are negotiated and finalized and adopted by the governors, then it's up to the association to really put together strategies and plans to get those policies implemented. It's a very activist organization. That's one of the things that I would say that's another distinguishing characteristic of Western Governors is that they are action oriented. They are doers. They’re like the GSD, get stuff done. 

Once those policies have been developed, then we put together coalitions of like-minded organizations and we'll testify before Congress or we'll develop and implement lobbying strategies, we'll comment on rulemakings and the success of Western Governors is just a singular and astounding. Over the years, we put together bipartisan efforts on electric vehicles. The governors got together and put together an electric vehicles’ roadmap for the West, and a hallmark of that effort was the execution of a multi-state agreement on charging infrastructure across the West. 

Governor Ige, when he was a chair, he led something called the Western Governors Biosecurity and Invasive Species Initiative. The real-life deliverables issuing from that effort are so impressive. We put together the Western – I'm sorry, Western Invasive Species Coalition, a gubernatorial appointed group to look for the first time really at regional invasive species and how to attack that. We put together a toolkit for the control and management of cheatgrass. We put together new data collection and sharing protocols, endangered species, workforce development. We did a 10-year energy plan for the West, a national force and range land management. 

We did an effort under Governor Doug Burgum of North Dakota called Reimagining the Rural West, where we talked about all manner of things to revitalize rural communities in the West, including developing leadership capacity. Just the range and the depth and the breadth of the issues taken on by Western Governors is really just phenomenal. I guess I'd end on this note. One of the issues that we took on in a big way about five or six years ago was the issue of endangered species. I remember when I was on Capitol Hill, I spent what seemed like a lifetime on Capitol Hill. That was really a third rail of resource politics. It was just the most politically contentious issue that I can think of in that sphere. 

Governor Matt Mead of Wyoming was the chair at the time. When he said he really wanted to take a hard look at the Endangered Species Act and look at some reforms and approach that issue with a little more sanity and rationality, I said, “Governor, it's a noble idea, but can't we take on something a little bit easier, maybe like peace in the Middle East?” His reaction was, “Jim, if Western Governors don't take this on, then who will? Who’s more equipped than Western Governors to tackle these really, nettle some policy issues in the West?” 

He was right. I remember we put together a policy resolution and went through, I think it was about 23 drafts. There was never a sharp elbow thrown. The Governors so respect each other and each other's political imperatives, and their policy chops, and their opinions. They listened to each other. It's really a remarkable environment in politics today. After this, this 23rd edition of this policy resolution, you would think that it would be pretty washed out, pretty vanilla wouldn't say much at all. I thought it was a really strong resolution. 

It was strong on the dimension of state authority, recognizing that states have competencies to put together species recovery plans, and that states should be involved at every step in the way in identifying species and putting together action plans for their protection. I would also say that that is really a hallmark of their work is this recognition of state authority. That's what binds Governors across the political spectrum is the recognition that states have authorities and competencies and that they don't want to be ever regarded as the stepchild of the federal government. There was a lot of rambling about Western Governors and the association, but I'm still a few months out of the job. I'm still just so enthusiastic about the work that they're doing. 

[0:07:38] CB: Exactly, Jim. I have to say that it brought to light three thoughts that I'd like to cover with you. Appreciate the foundation that you did lay there, but if you can discuss a little more about what it's like working for essentially 19 state and three territorial governors, in my mind, that's working for 22 CEOs of companies, major corporations. How do you balance that as an executive director? 

[0:08:08] JO: It's a fantastic responsibility. It's a fantastic opportunity. I think one of the dirty secrets of my job is that we all have bosses. My bosses are governors who are so very involved in the management of their states that they're not quite as interested in micromanaging the affairs of the association representing them all, which is not to say that they've got their eyes off the ball, but we have a lot of open field to work to advance their policy priorities. I think the one thing that I was always very careful about was staying within the boundaries that they laid out. 

The boundaries that they chalked out on the field were those that are in the letter and the spirit of the policy resolutions that they adopted. These were really difficult, not contentious, but difficult negotiations to come up with that bipartisan sweet spot. When the governors, as you say, of those 22 CEOs come together and present Congress with these recommendations saying that we've endorsed these as a bipartisan group of elected leaders, the top elected leaders of our state, that is a very, very powerful signal. 

There are a lot of disagreements behind those closed doors, but once that policy resolution is adopted, they walk out in strong, lockstep, arms interlock. We represent that this is the position of the West. This is a position of the Western governors. As long as we don't adlib and try to guess what the governor's position is going to be about something, as long as we stay within the four corners of the policy pronouncements that they have duly negotiated and adopted, then we've got a lot of a lot of rope and a lot of room to work on their behalf. 

[0:09:57] CB: In your introduction, as you walked us through the work, you talked about some of the initiatives that have been highlighted over the years, Reimagining the Rural West, Western Governors Biosecurity and Invasive Species, National Forest and Rangeland. I think the only one you may have left out was my favorite, which was probably the second or third meeting when I got introduced to Sage-Grouse, something coming from the Midwest I was not familiar with. But you, yourself and your team, it must really have taken some work to be able to pivot from this range of initiatives one year to the next. Can you talk a little bit about your team and how they were able to respond so well to such a wide variety of topics? 

[0:10:49] JO: Yeah. That's that is a great question. Like always, I've got a really long winded to answer to it. I guess the first thing that I'd point out is it probably for a generation, the governors were really focused on resource issues. It was endangered species, invasive species, energy, of course, the West is the energy bread basket of the country, water. These are really Western issues and wildfire, and other parts of the country have these issues too, but they're really concentrated in the West. The topography, the character of the West, the wide-open spaces, we've got the national parks are concentrated in the West. There's a lot of identity of interests with those and commonality of approach with those issues. 

A lot of those issues aren't by their very nature, politically charged or partisan, I guess I should say. I mean, drought really isn't a partisan issue. It doesn't respect state boundaries. The governors have a lot more to gain by working together on these issues than they do by casting cheap political potshots at each other. They were very, very successful in the resource area. Then they thought, “Well, shoot, we're having some good success here. why don't we expand our influence and expand the policy footprint of Western governance association to include more socioeconomic issues?” 

Now they have detailed and significant policies on things like trade and cyber security and workforce development and health care. That's rather new for WGA, but you brought up a really good question and that's this notion of issue whiplash changing from one issue to the next. Well, the fact of the matter is that these policy resolutions, and I'd say WGA has about 30 active policy resolutions at any one time. They have a three-year lifespan and at the end of those three years, then the governors have to decide whether they're going to going to keep them or ditch them or modify them. 

Those issues are kept fresh, because they're always before the governors. They tend to be modified with the times and the needs of the states, but to better manage those issues and those chair initiatives in those areas of concentration, we developed two different round tables, two different platforms to organize the work of Western governors. One is the Western prosperity round table, which is really the home for a lot of these socioeconomic issues. The other is the working lands round table. That is the home for a lot of the resource work of WGA. 

Using these platforms is really where the governors deploy their facilitation expertise. This is where we have – and forgive me for continuing to use the first person to, I'm not retired law enough to use the past tense. This is where we bring together thought leaders and stakeholders and other elected officials from all levels of government to expose some of these issues and talk them through and develop recommendations for the governors. 

I think with these platforms, if all the governors did were to assemble some of the best and brightest minds and identify these big issues and talk them through and synthesize best practices and have big conversations, that would probably be a pretty worthwhile expenditure of everybody's time. The governors would be totally dissatisfied with that, because as I mentioned before, they're action oriented. What we're really looking to do is to use these platforms to create real world deliverables that improve life in the West. 

[0:14:34] CB: Thank you. What a complex organization dealing with important issues on a bipartisan scale. It would be nice if others would take note of that. Certainly, I think it goes without saying that many policy leaders have taken note. Thank you for that great work. I'm going to pivot on my own here, Jim, a little bit to timeframe of 1995 to 1997. We've got the onset of the internet. We've got competency-based education through Roy Romer, a former governor of the state of Colorado. 

The Western Governors Association decides it's time to found an online university. As I've said before, neither you or I were there at the time, but we've certainly benefited from the relationship during our time with our respective organizations. Can you talk a little bit about the synergies and just what you've seen? We have a track record of WGU just celebrating its 25th anniversary. Certainly, that was a time for us to reflect back on founding governors, but maybe how that feeds into what we've been discussing, given that they really were on the cutting edge at the time. They came together collaboratively. Then just your thoughts and views on Western Governors University. 

[0:16:08] JO: You bet, Chris. Well, as you mentioned, WGU was founded by Western Governors more than 25 years ago. I think at that time, the governor's apprehended that available post-secondary educational opportunities were really insufficient to meet the needs of many of their constituents. They got together to create an online competency-based model that could be used by individuals seeking to upskill or to develop competencies and industries with demonstrable workforce needs. People who are already working and maybe had families, these individuals could proceed at their own pace and didn't have to commute to a central campus to continue that education. 

I think what people need to know is that WGU is an absolute online pioneer. Occupying that space long before everybody was occupying that space. Western Governors University was established as an entity, completely independent of the Governors’ Association. I would say, it left home at an early age to grow up and found itself and make its fortune. In the past several years, and largely under the leadership of one Chris Bonnell, Western Governors University has come home to help its aging parent, the WGA. 

I think the current relationship between WGA and WGU is best described as a robust partnership, in the very best senses of that word. WGU is a major sponsor of the association, but beyond that, it provides energy to WGA programming and it contributes intellectual capital to WGA's policy enterprise. It makes meaningful contributions to the success of Western Governors at every turn. 

[0:17:54] CB: Thank you, Jim, for the kind words and for the partnership. We at WGU feel very fortunate not only for the parental child relationship, but the opportunities that it has afforded us. Which brings me to my next question. 

About three years ago, you dug through the archives. No, you probably knew about it, but there was this organization within Western Governors it wasn't really operating, functioning. You brought to life the Western Governors Foundation. Can you share a little bit about that? Then we're going to get into an important topic that I know we both hold near and dear to our hearts. But let's talk first about the foundation in general. 

[0:18:42] JO: You bet. A little history about the Western Governors Foundation. Western Governors Association was established in 1984. It was the product of a merger of two policy offices, both of which purported to represent the Western Governors. Shortly after the founding of WGA, the Western Governors Foundation was formed, but it was formed solely as a passive financial arm of the association. Its purpose was to receive contributions from donors to support the work of the association. 

All active Western Governors were members of the board of the foundation. The executive director of the association served as the executive director of the foundation. It really was just an accounting tool. The only time that I, as executive director, ever bumped up against the foundation was when the unified audit came out, unified audit for the foundation and the association. 

in 2018, we looked at this organization, this passive financial arm, which it was duly incorporated under the laws of Colorado, and asked why not reinvent Western Governors Foundation as an actual philanthropic organization. It was better positioned to pursue charitable projects to improve life in the West and for Western governors. The governor thought this was a pretty good idea, so we completely rewrote all of the governance documents, the articles of the corporation, the bylaws. We established a separate board of directors and a president of the foundation. All of the directors of the foundation now are either governors, currently serving as governors of their state, or ex governors with one exception. That one exception is Scott Pulsipher. 

Scott Pulsipher is the president of Western Governors University. I think his presence on the Western Governors’ Foundation reflects the intimacy of that relationship between Western Governors University and the Western Governors’ Association. The governors adopted those changes. We launched this new foundation publicly in 2019, then it really began to consider what projects it was going to pursue.

[0:21:01] CB: Even before the launch of the foundation, I know that one of the initiatives that's now been rolled in to the foundation is the Celebrate The West. I'll tell you, as a regular attendee at the meetings, it has been just awe inspiring to see the artistic talent of citizenry from across the western part of the country. Now, I'm going to give you a little bit of credit, Jim, but I'm also hoping that you're, in all honesty, going to deflect a little bit of the credit for the establishment of Celebrating The West. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? 

[0:21:41] JO: Yeah. I will deflect all of the credit, which belongs to the person who really founded and championed and ran that competition for several years. Christine Ogsbury, a very close friend of mine, actually. Also, she’s my wife. She's really proud of that competition and it continues. She's retired from an active role in Celebrate the West, but that continues very strong. That was the first project that was adopted by Western Governors Foundation after its reorganization in 2018. 

I think it's the seventh year now. It's really been fantastic. It's designed, as the title suggests, to Celebrate the West. Young artists, the high school age, are challenged to create two-dimensional works that reflect life in their state or are otherwise evocative of the West. As you mentioned, Chris, some of the works are just absolutely phenomenal. A number of the governors will take the winners from their state and celebrate them and display their art in the Capitol or other public spaces. We've been proud to display winners at the WGA Annual Meeting. 

[0:22:54] CB: Yeah. Just fabulous for people that are not regular attendees. They're certainly the opportunity on westgov.org under the foundation to see some sampling of the artistic talents. I would say that the future is in good hands artistically with many of these folks and what they've been able to present. Always a fabulous opportunity during the meetings to be able to see that and be inspired by it. 

About three years ago, Celebrate the West wasn't enough for you. You decided you wanted to launch a leadership institute, which WGU has been very fortunate to be a part of, but can you give us the background on how that came together and what it means to you? 

[0:23:48] JO: You bet. Thanks, Chris. As I mentioned, in 2019, we've got this new foundation up and running. We've got one project that's already well designed and established, which is Celebrate the West. The governors are really trying to figure out what do we do with this foundation. If you think about it, it's backwards, right? Because most charitable organizations, you start with the purpose. If you want to feed the hungry or clothe the poor or serve veterans, you start with that purpose and then you develop your organization to serve those needs. 

Well, we had the organization first and then we're not groping, but thinking very deliberately and intentionally about how best to leverage the influence of this very powerful group of directors and friends of the foundation. It was just almost like just a revelation when we hit on the idea of the Western Governors’ Leadership Institute, because that is the one thing that really excites governors and speaks to who they are as people and as professionals. They are leaders. We established the Western governor's leadership institute as an incubator for young leaders in the West. 

Western Governor's Leadership Institute is supported by a generous commitment from Western Governors’ University. We are operating in the second year of a five-year agreement, which gives us so much latitude and confidence in the success of this enterprise. One hallmark of the leadership institute is the selection of young leaders to represent their states, tribes, and territories at a leadership forum immediately precedes the WGA annual meeting. The delegates then attend a foundation expense, the WGA meeting, which is frequented by governors and cabinet secretaries and university presidents, other thought leaders, other national names, and dignitaries. 

The inaugural leadership forum took place last year, last July in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, right before the WGA summer meeting in Coeur d’ Alene. For the last eight months, I've been joking that we probably can't do another leadership forum again, because we set the bar so high with that first one that it's really going to be hard to replicate. We had 26 delegates that engaged in intimate conversations with governors and former governors, a former presidential candidate, two university presidents, titans of industry, and they met cabinet secretaries and they socialized with the attendees of the annual meeting.

Then they self-selected a panel to engage with governors on the dais for panel conversation toward the end of the annual meeting. We have been reviewing applications for 2023. We'll be making announcements of delegate selections in the next, I'd say month or two. This year's forum is going to be in June in Boulder, and it promises to be outstanding. Then in addition to the leadership forum, the institute is building out a leadership network, a leadership forum, alumni society, leadership training modules, and other leadership resources. We really are looking forward to looking forward to occupying a space of great thought leadership when it comes to incubating leadership in the last. 

[0:27:07] CB: Jim, I have to say if that had been an option 35, maybe 40 years ago, I hate to date myself too much, but what a unique opportunity for the students engaged, but let me flip that. Also, to say as an attendee last summer, I was sitting down having a conversation with Governor Roy Romer, former Governor Roy Romer of Colorado. One of the delegates or leadership attendees sat down with us, and I saw it as an opportunity to go get my luggage up into my room and came back down, and 40 minutes later, Jim, they were still going at it like they were fast friends. The confidence that it had to inspire. 

Again, that was one example, but engaging with the delegates from each state throughout the course of the week was just, was a unique opportunity, I think, not only for them, but for those of us that been in the game long enough or maybe we get jaded a bit to see that enthusiasm, the reality of the questions, what an incredible opportunity for all of us as we reflect and try to get to a better place as a nation. Thank you for the brain work behind it. The development of the concept. We find it to be an absolute pleasure to be involved with. 

[0:28:41] JO: Well, thank you for that, Chris. I couldn't agree more. I really couldn't be. It is so hardening to see these really engaged, smart, committed young people who are priming themselves to assume leadership positions, because there's no gain saying that those folks are our future and for good or for bad. Let's make it for good. I agree with you. I mean, I found myself just so energized by their participation and their attendance. It really – they gave me some fresh up for the future. 

[0:29:12] CB: Last question for you, Jim, at WGU. I think you've heard us utilize the tagline, we talk about being founded by states for states, which really feeds into a larger axiom. That is states is the laboratory of democracy. Can you comment on that a little bit having had a front row seat or on the dais for the better part of 13 years, watching these governors enact legislation policy that really is for the betterment, hopefully at least, the District of Columbia? 

[0:29:52] JO: Yeah. You bet. We obviously live in a very diverse country. Governors really chafe at the notion of a one size fits all federal approach to problems and issues that manifest in very different ways and in very different political environments across the nation. It is true that in America, the 50 states are known as laboratories of democracy, because they engineer really creative policy ideas that are tested within the state and sometimes adopted at the federal level. 

I think that the notion of states as laboratories of democracy significantly understates their power, their constitutional authority. The 10th Amendment establishes the government powers that are not specifically enumerated in the Constitution, like the power to mint money or the power to declare war, are reserved to the states. Consequently, the powers of the federal government are narrow and defined and enumerated, while the power of the states is vast and unlimited and innumerable. 

States aren't test beds for democracy. They're exactly where democracy happens. I think that COVID educated a lot of people about the power of governors. They were at the front lines of the pandemic battle, making life and death decisions about the allocation of resources and the implementation of safety protocols. They all cooperated and they learned from each other, but they all exercised their authority quite independently of one another. 

At the same time, their other weighty responsibilities didn't disappear. They still had to balance their budgets and educate their residents and deal with pesky legislatures, but they did so with sobriety and grace and energy and enthusiasm and humor. It has been such a privilege to work with the men and women who served as governors of their state. As you said, the CEOs, the chief management, the chief executives of their states. I'm just so blessed. I'm so fortunate and just so appreciative of the opportunity. 

[0:32:02] CB: Well, Jim, on that note, and speaking of blessed, thank you for participating with us today. Thank you for your friendship going back years now. I've always been a believer that we meet people that we're supposed to meet. It is a pleasure to count you as a true friend and colleague. We appreciate you dropping by our podcast today. Look forward to seeing you down the road. 

[0:32:28] JO: Thank you so much, Chris. 

[OUTRO]

[0:32:31] CB: That's it for this episode of Sage Advice from WGU. Thank you to Jim Ogsbury for joining me today. Thank you all for tuning in.

[END]