The Power of Partnerships with David Quam

Our guest today, David Quam, has had a fascinating career. From his high-paced start as a young employee working on the Contract with America in the mid-1990s to founding his firm, 56 Capitals, two and a half decades later, there has been no shortage of excitement, long hours, and hard-won negotiations. In our conversation with David, we discuss his time in Washington, the crucial role that state and local government play in the American Federal System, and the power of relationships in politics. We also discuss the partnerships between Republican and Democratic representatives, how David has seen them put politics aside, and why the dedication of senators and other public servants continues to give him hope, despite our turbulent political landscape. David has a wealth of knowledge and the exposure of his career has facilitated a keen insight into the American political system. Tune in to hear all of David’s incisive observations on American legislation, politics, and the power of relationships!

Transcript

EPISODE 6

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:04] CB: Welcome to another installment of sage advice from Western Governors University. I'm your host Chris Bunnell. Today, I'm joined by my colleague, Allen Clarkson, Director of Government Relations at WGU. Allen is what we call a pioneer at WGU, and he has amassed countless stories of innovation, grit, and resilience over the years. He recently regaled me with just a few of those stories. Now, I'm excited to share them with you. Here is Sage Advice with Allen Clarkson.

[EPISODE]

[00:00:48] CB: Welcome to this edition of Sage Advice. Our guest today is Allen Clarkson, Director of Government Relations at Western Governors University. Allen, welcome to the show.

[00:00:59] AC: Thanks for having me today, Chris. I'm really glad to be here.

[00:01:03] CB: So, Allen, let's go back in time, kind of set the bar if we will. But you are what is referred to at WGU you as a pioneer. Can you explain what it means to be a pioneer?

[00:01:19] AC: Well, it's funny, Pioneer at WGU really means ‘old person who's hung around through thick and thin and has been very fortunate’, at least in my case, 'has been very fortunate to be a part of the growth of this institution.’ I started at WGU in 2005. I was grading papers in IT college as a contractor and then joined the faculty later that year full-time in the IT College.

At the time, I think we had about 2,000 students, 2800 students, and about 200 faculty and staff. Certainly, seen not only growth, but absolute change in the understanding of what WGU is. When I started at WGU, my mom said, "It sounds like a great idea. I hope they follow up with the paycheck." It was an online take-a-shot, but it's still based in a strong mission of student service, of meeting students where they are. That's what attracted me to WGU in the first place, innovative delivery model, innovative educational modality, but done in a way that isn't just different or new, but it's compellingly impactful for students.

I've been very fortunate to be in 15 different job titles over 17 years in a variety of departments. It's been a wonderful ride and it's fantastic to be able to revisit some of that here today.

[00:02:44] CB: So if you could identify one person that has impacted your career at WGU, from the early days, so as you were first getting your feet wet. Would you introduce us to that person, and then explain what skill or principle that you most gleaned from that individual?

[00:03:09] AC: Wow. Chris, you said as we were preparing for this as you invited me in that these would be softball questions. That's not a softball question. WGU full of inspiring folks, at least my experience at WGU has been full of inspiring folks and in all different elements of the work. 

Patricia Logan, who is Director of the IT College, when I first joined WGU. She and I had known each other through my graduate work and some research we had done together. Unfortunately, she has passed, but she brought me into WGU. We at the time designed degrees that were based on IT credentials. It was this idea of taking what was already respected, what was already understood in the IT marketplace, aligning those rigorously, aligning those with competencies that had been identified by WGU's advisory faculty, finding pathways to students so that they would have opportunities to advance in their career while they were working on their degree, whether it was through a certification, or a new skill, or some credential they could take forward to employers on the way to completing that degree. Pat really introduced me to how WGU's competency model was adaptable, and how a student focused, and how a student driven, and student need driven.

There are so many folks. I feel like it's an Oscar speech, right, Chris? I feel like I'm going to leave out a whole lot more people than I leave in. But I do want to mention one other who I hope you have the opportunity to include in some of these advice interviews, and that's Stacey Ludwig Johnson, who I believe is employee 11 or 13 at the institution, originally had the entire enrollment on Excel spreadsheet on her laptop when there were 16 people. Stacey is still with WGU. She is now the Senior Vice President, Dean of the School of Education and has championed the growth, but also continued focus on students.

I don't know how long we're going to be able to do this interview. If it were three seconds long, and I had one word to describe WGU, it would be students and the people who taught me that were Pat, Stacey, and many others along the way, including you, Chris. I mean, I realized this is not a podcast just to make Chris feel good, but you have certainly championed a student-obsessed approach to all the work that we do in government relations as well.

[00:05:48] CB: Thank you for the kind words, Allen. See, I knew that it wasn't going to be exactly a hardball, because I knew that there were folks that had impacted you early on. And the reason I say that is, you're 17 years at WGU probably equates more to our grandparent's generation, as far as longevity with one employer, one institution. What has kept you around?

[00:06:16] AC: Well, I meant to take this job for about nine months. At the time I took this job, I had another offer, a very impressive offer to the outside world and decided at the time that WGU sounded like a bit of a lark, but a bit of a bigger adventure, and the opportunity to get involved early on with something that was going to be huge. What has kept me around is that, because I enjoyed WGU so early, I've been fortunate to be able – I mentioned I have had 15 different titles. I've been able to grow professionally with the organization. So as the organization has grown, as our reach has grown, as the needs of our organization, to adapt to student needs, to adapt to state outreach, to adapt to partnerships. As all of those things have grown, I've been able to professionally grow along with them.

But again, we can make this a three-second podcast, because what has kept me around more than anything else is work with students. Whether it's when I was mentoring students directly, whether it's with rideshare drivers that I meet, when I'm traveling to states, they take my card, and then they call me back, and actually enroll. Whether it's folks I meet in the press corps, whether it's folks I meet currently at state days, or in focus groups, the opportunity that WGU presents for students is overwhelmingly inspiring to be involved with. It's humbling to be a part of that journey, a small part of that student journey, but a part of that student journey to see how WGU changes lives, changes families, changes professional trajectory, and just changes people.

It's a joy to be a part of and that's what keeps me around. It's like any workplace. It's like any organization. There are times that I think all of us scratch our head and wonder what was I thinking, or what am I thinking. But every time that happens, there's another student's story, there's another graduation, there's another opportunity to see the impact that WGU has had on at least 300,000 people so far, if you count by alumni. Another 130,000, if you count by active students, and their families, and their friends, and their kids, and so forth. So just to be able to be a part of such an impactful enterprise has kept me around through things that may have had me leave other institutions or other organizations.

[00:08:56] CB: So let's talk about the numbers a little bit. You just threw out some impressive statistics. 130,000 students, 300,000 graduate, or degrees awarded. When you started 17 years ago, did you look in the crystal ball and see it for what it is today?

[00:09:18] AC: Absolutely not. We took it on. Those of us who came on in the same cohort, we knew it would sustain. We knew it was something that could be impactful. We knew it was something that could help a lot of people. We thought maybe wouldn't it be great if there were 15,000, 20,000 students, if we had 50,000 alumni, wouldn't that be amazing? Think of all those people, 50,000 alumni from just this little online competency-based program. I assume there are others who from the get go maybe the founding governors, maybe Dr. Mendenhall, the first President, maybe even President Pulsipher when he came in or other faculty members had a sense of the scope of the impact. But me, absolutely not. I had no concept that I would see people in the grocery store who I did not know with a WGU t-shirt on, that I would see bumper stickers on cars. Sure I see ads online, or maybe there's something on television, but it's those organic impressions, where I know that the impact is widespread and bigger than I ever imagined it would have been. Glad I didn't leave; I probably be kicking myself every time I saw one of those t-shirts.

[00:10:34] CB: One of Allen's favorite phrases is "Don't leave 10 minutes before the miracle happens." I'm hoping in this case that the miracle continues to be elusive by that 10 minutes for a long time to come. But back to your number about what the founding governors thought. You and I had a distinct pleasure to have an elongated conversation with former founder and Governor Roy Romer from Colorado. 

Let me set the stage: We're sitting out looking over the creek in Vail, asking him some of the same questions that we've been opining on in the last few minutes. As I remember it, he said, "A hundred thousand what? We would have been happy to know it was going to be 7,000 to 10,000 students enrolled." I think the wherewithal of that pioneer spirit reflected by so many has far outpaced what the early anticipation was, as to what success would look like. 

Now, the second factor that you identify is the importance of serving students. and whether it is student number one or student 300,000, or graduate number one or graduate 300,000. WGU talks about a high-quality affordable education. Can you speak to that a little bit?

[00:12:08] AC: I can. One of the things that really strikes me about the numbers is that the growth in active students has outpaced the growth in faculty and staff. Now, the growth in faculty has also outpaced the growth in staff, which I think is to the institution's credit. But the reason for that is not that students are less supported than they were originally. I would argue that as a former faculty member, 15 years ago, that the folks who are supporting students now are doing even more for students than we were able to do when I started at WGU. A lot of that has to do with the evolution of technology, computers are faster, websites are better, they're more contact points. But I think the real key to WGU's success with students. I think if we were good at giving students an education, if we were good at providing an alternative, we may be around that 50,000 or 75,000 alumni. The reason we're at 300,000 alumni, the reason that we have so many students is because the quality of the education that students go away with is something the graduates brag about to other folks, and that they demonstrate in the workplace. I think the proof is in that result.

So whether it's innovation in the way that we track student interaction that are able to intervene at critical points in student's educational journey. Whether it's our disaggregated faculty model that allows every student or that provides every student instead of having a mentor and a guide, they have five points of contact at any time. They have evaluation faculty, they have assessment faculty, they have program faculty, they have course instructors. There are so many more points of contact for a student that is enabled by that model. So students work at their pace, whether that be fast, or whether that be slow. And the system is able that – I don't mean the computers themselves. I mean, the system, the design is able to support that student journey, however that student needs for that journey to proceed. I think we've learned over 25 years, how to support students, where to support students and how to be where students need for WGU to be, rather than having students come to us with much more proactive, just cooked into the system to be proactive, to be focused on all of those support points, and to do it even better than we did 25 years ago.

[00:15:10] CB: So you lead the government relations practice at WGU. Can you give us a quick primer on what that looks like, what it involves, entails and maybe what are the four key objectives that you have during the course of any one year?

[00:15:31] AC: Yes. So a little quibble, a little nuance, I lead the state government relations. Man, I'm proud of that and I don't see that as a limiter. WGU was founded by governors, was founded by states, four states. So to be charged with overseeing our state government relations is a wheel badge of honor. It is where we come from. It is where we can be most directly impactful on students. It's where we can meet those students and meet the needs of those students. What we do, we have engagement on behalf of students, and on behalf of our institution to really accomplish two overarching principles. These aren't our annual goals. These are our overarching principles. Our overarching principles are access to education, and credibility of the degrees.

So, everything that we do falls into one of those two categories. Access would include licensure pathways for students, working with regulators, working with legislators, working with state executive on – maybe it's reciprocity agreements, maybe it's pathways for teacher licensure, or accounting, sitting for the CPA exam, nurse licensure. Of course, we don't do those by ourselves, we work at the direction, and need of our colleges. We're not just out on an island. We serve students, primarily, but we serve students through the colleges, and then through the regions that we have the operational regions that we have. So access through licensure, access very importantly to state grant and aid for students who qualify for it in our state. WGU works to put students in a position to be successful. And in states where grant and aid is available for college students, where grant and aid is available, in our case, primarily for adult students. We seek to open those channels have aid for students to use at WGU or other institutions that they might choose. 

So our focus there, on access, on credibility. We have a duty of stewardship to those 300,000 people who have trusted WGU with their education to keep that degree as a credible, meaningful, high-quality degree, both to governments and to other institutions. So we work on some – I guess the lingo is brand awareness or visibility. Do you know who WGU is? Do you know what we do? We focus on any elected or appointed policymaker, whether that's the governor or the director of water management system in a rural county. We work with all of those folks to understand what WGU is, how it brings value to their communities, how it brings value to their states. Then we also work directly on building partnerships with states, how can we contribute to their higher education system? How can we contribute to attainment numbers? How can WGU be a part of economic development efforts? How can WGU be a part of workforce development efforts? 

We have those two sorts of principles: access and credibility. We have those areas of focus within those, whether it's licensure, or state grant and aid opportunities, whether it's outreach and partnership. But all of that encompasses under a very broad umbrella that we refer to as deepening and broadening our engagement on behalf of students. 

So when we partner with a state, we don't approach the state with something that we can get for our institution. We approach the state with advocacy for our students and opportunity for our future students, and also what we can contribute back into the state. Whether that's our institutional knowledge about competency-based education, or adult reading engagement, or working to relieve workforce, pipeline issues, or working to reach rising and stranded talent. We've learned a lot in 25 years, and we are happy to give it away for free to states. We are happy to contribute back what was contributed to us by all the states, always in stewardship of those folks who have trusted us with their education and with their future.

[00:20:19] CB: So let's go into one of the particulars. In 2010, Governor Mitch Daniels and Dr. Bob Mendenhall put together a partnership with the State of Indiana. Since that time, that has been replicated in some form or function with other states. Can you talk a little bit more about what those state partnerships look like?

[00:20:44] AC: Yes. I have an easy answer and a wonky answer. We'll start with the easy answer. The easy answer is that all of those partnerships represent a direct commitment. I would even say a direct promise from the state, and from the institution to work on behalf of students to improve the education opportunities in the state. Now, the wonkier your answer is, we have 13 partnerships, and I think there are 26 different variations of partnership within those 13. Of course, what I mean by that is that, every state is different, every state has different needs. Partnerships and affiliate states have developed over a 13-year period. Each state and each administration that has come in and sought to partner with WGU has had different needs. 

In some instances, it was a need for additional capacity within their higher education system, such as – you mentioned the Indiana partnership of inaugural partnership with WGU Indiana. Now, Indiana, interestingly, the State of Indiana was also a signatory to the original MOU that found in WGU. So that one made a whole lot of sense. That partnership, that affiliation made a whole lot of sense. But what it proved out was that WGU in partnership with a state was a supplement and an enhancement to the state education system. None of the governors who founded WGU had horrible state education systems. When we look at the states that are in the footprint of the Western Governors Association, my home state of Utah, our other home state of Colorado, California, Washington, Oregon. These are strong state education systems. What the governor saw was that WGU could supplement and build on the work that state systems were doing. Not compete with, not supplant, not take over for, but provide additional educational opportunities and pathways. 

With all that sort of wonky, wild, rambling piece, the 12 affiliate states or partnership states that have followed on from Indiana have all addressed unique needs in those states, whether it be access to aid for students, whether it be capacity, whether it be encouraging adult reengagement, or competency based programs or workforce aligned programs within the state, all of them build up, not only the state's capacity for education, but also WGU's credibility in working in those states. Say access credibility and students quite a lot over our conversation.

[00:23:43] CB: No question. Always have and those tenants are so important to the work that is done. Now, I'm going to take a little bit of privilege. I'll call it colleague privilege, and say with everything that we've discussed here, facetiously, I would say, doesn't sound like you've ever been told no. But yet, I know that's not the case, so let's flip the dynamic. Why do you think there are the obstacles that are put in place to prevent not only serving students but partnering with states?

[00:24:19] AC: Wow, that's a hardball question for someone who's recording, maybe pulled up in a policymaker's office, but I'll be as frank and candid as this forum permits. A large part of the resistance, the largest part of the resistance is misunderstandings, or mistaken impressions about what WGU is and how we are designed, how we operate by folks who just haven't heard of us. We did a study of policymakers about four years ago now, I guess it is, with an outside polling agency. They polled a wide swath of policymakers, so speakers of houses, chiefs of staff in governor's offices, thought leaders in states. They found out two things. They found out that anyone who had heard of WGU and had heard of WGU from us thought we were an amazing opportunity for states. The second big takeaway they discovered is that no one has heard about WGU. 

The biggest obstacle we still face is that, particularly in government, there's a lot of turnovers. A governor of a state, if productive and lucky only gets eight years. Which means that, even in our founding states, if the founding governor were the governor when we were founded, we're on the fourth administration in that state and information doesn't necessarily pass from administration to administration. Let alone from legislative office to legislative office with WGU at the top of every briefing book. 

Our biggest obstacle is continuing to tell the story. Not just the commercials, not just, have you heard of WGU? Have you seen a t-shirt? Have you heard you heard go Night Owls? But, do you know what WGU is? Do you know what we do? Do you understand competency-based education? Do you understand a disaggregated faculty model? Do you understand student obsession? So we tell our story, the same story we tell our students story on a recurring cycle. Every two years in most legislatures, every four to eight years with governors. That's our biggest challenge, is continuing to be the ones who are telling our story.

Others can tell our story. Some of the most common misconceptions are that WGU is a for profit institution. We are a nonprofit institution. That WGU is coming for your education system. We're not coming for your education system. We're hoping to help students. That WGU is some flyby night operation that was set up by governors. WGU is fully accredited at its founding. It was accredited by all the regional accrediting agencies through an interregional accrediting body. So I think the biggest challenge we have continues to be being the ones who are telling our own story. Our story is a compelling one. Our students' story is a compelling one. I said the majority, it's more than the majority. There may be a small piece, there may be 10% of our challenge is direct, misinformed, fear-based opposition. I always say that WGU doesn't have any competitors. By the latest numbers from the National Student Clearinghouse, there are 34 million students in this country who have some college and no degree. No one institution can help 34 million students. It takes different models, it takes different approaches, and it takes all of us. It takes my alma mater, it takes WGU, and it takes other modalities to meet that need, to meet those students who for one reason or another have stopped out and want a pathway to continue. 

I see there's a wide-open channel. I don't know that that's universal. I don't know that everyone in education sees other institutions as collaborators or partners. We seek community college partnerships. We seek partnerships with other four and six-year degree granting institutions to put students in a position to be successful. It's an easy enough story to tell, but we have to tell it a lot of times. 

This year, we have 37 new governors, over 4,000 new legislators across the country. That doesn't even count the county commissioners and the mayors, the water reclamation officers in every county. There are a lot of folks to talk to, and a lot of folks to get the story out to. That's our biggest challenge. There are specific items. There are specific elements of our institution that we have to explain, and defend, and take forward. But the biggest challenge is how many folks need to hear about WGU?

[00:29:14] CB: Allen, thank you for the response. Thank you for joining us today. Always insightful to get to learn not only from your pioneer experience, but also present-day activities. I would be remiss if I didn't close with one question, so it's a nice fall day in Michigan. I think normally in November. It's a Saturday afternoon, Michigan State Spartans, or Michigan Wolverines?

[00:29:47] AC: Well, I only heard you mentioned one football school in that question, so I'll just have to pick the Spartans just by default. 

[00:29:56] CB: Go Green! 

[00:29:58] AC: Go white!

[00:29:58] CB: Allen, thanks for joining us. Always a pleasure.

[00:30:02] AC: Thanks for having me, Chris.

[END OF EPISODE]

[00:30:05] CB: That's it for this episode of Sage Advice from WGU. Thank you to my colleague and friend, Allen Clarkson for joining me today, and thank you all for tuning in.

[END]